Art Ed Radio’s 500th Episode Celebration!

Art Ed Radio has officially reached 500 episodes, and we’re celebrating a decade of conversations, creativity, and community! In this special milestone episode, host Tim Bogatz is joined by longtime collaborator Amanda Heyn to reflect on the podcast’s evolution, favorite moments, standout guests, and how art education—and the Art of Ed Community—has changed over the last 10 years.

From the early days of AOE Live to viral episode titles, from live podcast recordings to storytelling experiments and the ever-popular mailbag, this episode is a nostalgic look back—and an exciting look forward—at what makes Art Ed Radio special.

Full episode transcript below.

Resources and Links

• • Join the Art of Ed Community
  • Check out An Art History Mystery
  • Listen to interviews with Sir Ken Robinson and CJ Hendry
  • Podcast Miniseries: The Art of SEL, Ask the Experts, What New Teachers Need to Know
  • Learn more about the Art Ed NOW Conference!

Transcript

Tim:

Welcome to Art Ed Radio, the podcast for art teachers. This show is produced by the Art of Education and I’m your host, Tim Bogatz.

Alright, welcome to the show and welcome to a celebration. This is episode number 500 of Art Ed Radio and with me to celebrate and to reminisce is Amanda Heyn. Amanda, how are you?

Amanda:

Good, I feel like I should have had a noisemaker or something. I want a soundboard or something like, woohoo!

Tim:

That sounds good. Maybe in post-production, I will figure out how to add some fun audio clips to really just spice up the excitement here. But we are going to have some fun old audio clips just as we talk about some of the different things that we’ve done, different things that we’ve gone through over the course of 500 episodes, which is…

Amanda:

It’s almost insane to say out loud. It’s kind of crazy.

Tim:

think about how long we’ve been doing this. years? Yeah, yeah. Well, and the other thing, I was talking to my wife about this and she came up with the point that when I first started doing this podcast, when we put it all together way back in the day, current new teachers were in middle school. That made me feel so old.

Amanda:

Please, let’s go back in time and pretend nobody heard that. That’s so wild.

Tim:

Yeah, it really is. But like it’s been it’s been a great 10 years. I’ve enjoyed it for for all of this. And you know, I think that’s probably I don’t know if we’d get to this point if I didn’t enjoy doing it. So that’s that’s something to remember. But honestly, I was just thinking back to the last year or so, and we’ve done some super cool stuff in the last year. We did the art history mystery earlier this year.

Amanda:

Of course.

Tim:

I really loved our first what fiction podcast, our first storytelling podcast brought in a lot of friends. If you did not listen to that, it’s a great episode about some art teacher PD at the MoMA and a missing painting and detective mystery. We really enjoyed making that. So that was fun to do.

Amanda:

You could also use it in your classroom. It’s a two-part episode. You could see who your students think. In fact, when we previewed it with Janet Taylor’s son, we only had the first part done. he said, mom, I need to know who did it. When is the second episode coming? So. Yeah.

Tim:

It was not too obvious. So that was good. And it can be a good vehicle to introduce some art history. Cause we have some specific paintings that we talk about, some specific artists and it’s pretty fun. And the other thing from this fall that I really loved is we did our first live podcast. So…

What were your memories from that Amanda?

Amanda:

It was just so exciting to be in a room with people who you’re usually, usually we don’t get to see you all listening to the podcast.

We’re talking to each other, we’re hitting publish, and I know, you know, we’ve got thousands of people listening, but we don’t know that, we don’t see those people. And so the energy in a full room there was pretty spectacular.

It was really fun because we didn’t have to add the sounds in post-production because people just clap for us, which is really lovely and really, kind. I can say it was the most fun I’ve ever had recording a podcast. I mean, no offense. This is also very fun, but having our community there, it was really extra special. Also, we gave away these incredible rainbow scarves that were, it was great to have everybody in the room wearing a rainbow scarf. It just did something to my heart.

Tim:

Very validating.

Amanda:
But we’ll have to see if anybody wears those scarves because NAEA, the National Convention is in Chicago, which is where we did the live podcast. if we find those people still wearing their scarves, like that would be very cool.

You know, I don’t know, can’t, I probably can’t say anything. We are also giving away something good that you can wear, probably 99 % sure, at NEA this year. So we’re going to be there. So we hope to see even more of you.

Tim:

We’ll say no promises, but keep an eye out. But no, I was just going to say with that live podcast, it really felt like just a culmination of building up a very cool audience and having enough listeners that people want to come hear us live. And then as soon as we got done, it was like, oh, that’s not a culmination. We need to do this more. so hopefully in the future, we can do that again sometime. was horrible.

Amanda:

Yes.

Tim:

Yeah, it was great.

I don’t know. I also wanted to talk about when we first started, just the idea of the podcast. Cause you know, you’ve worked here, you know, talk that I, have been doing this for a long time. You’ve worked here even longer than me. So, what do you remember about AOE Live? Our first, our first foray into podcast.

Amanda:

It was great. And I think it was just a little bit before people were ready for it. So now we have Instagram Live, right? Or we have YouTube Live, or we have streaming. We have all the streaming platforms that people go on all the time and people have their favorites that they listen to and they subscribe to. And none of that infrastructure really existed 10 years ago.

Tim:

It did not.

Amanda:

That was our idea. Our idea was to be a streaming podcast that you could come in and interact with. Obviously, that’s why it was called AOE Live. I don’t know how many people listening today actually remember that or ever caught one of those things. I don’t even remember what platform we used to do that.

But it was live somewhere. And I also don’t think the technology was quite ready for us. It was, I just remember, and I wasn’t heavily involved in the show at that point, really. It was you and Andrew McCormick. And I just remember though, behind the scenes, a lot of stress with each, each month or week, or I don’t know.

Tim:

It was it was every other week

Amanda:

It was every other week, right?

Tim:

Yeah, but it was it was incredibly stressful because like you said, like the idea was there, but the technology was not there yet. So we’re we’re sort of trying to force it a little bit and it was great for for what it was, but it was definitely not sustainable with right now. All of those things. So we just kind of with all of those issues, I should say. And so we transitioned into making just a regular podcast.

Amanda:

Yeah, I was gonna say what was that conversation of like hey this maybe we could just do a regular podcast because also those were new I mean, it’s not like podcasts were what they are today either so . . .

Tim:

No, definitely not. I mean, they were coming into the mainstream. were getting a lot more popular. We’re not groundbreaking by any means. But I remember we got through one episode with just a ton of technical difficulties. It was a huge issue, a huge stressor. And we just said, like, we can’t do this. Like, it’s not sustainable. We had I think three more guests booked for future weeks and we’re like, let’s just wrap it up then. And we decided to do transition into the podcast and that worked pretty well to be honest. The podcast worked well. I loved hosting with Andrew. did a couple episodes that got quite a bit of traction, which was kind of fun. And back when things went viral on Facebook.

Amanda:

Right, yeah, I guess was that when you realized people were kind of listening? Yeah. you started to get hate ma- not hate mail, but discussion, when you started to generate a robust discussion, I’ll say, about certain topics.

Tim:

Thanks. Very, very good phrasing for it. But yeah, that’s absolutely what happened. I remember we did an episode with Don Masse, one of my favorite art teacher friends, and it was about teaching contemporary art history. And, you know, we tried to be kind of edgy with our titles. And so I think we called the episode No More Dead White Guys, which I still stand by, by the way. But it got a lot of traction.

You know, just a lot of people on one side going, Hey, this is great. I love this information. I love your perspective and other people going, this is really inflammatory. Why would you title it this? Why are you trying to be so offensive with things? And so like, no, we’re not trying to be offensive. We just want to get you to listen to the podcast. But you know, doing that, I think got a lot more listeners, which I think was great. And we did a two two-part episode, I guess, called the things that great art teachers do and also the things that terrible art teachers do. We were not trying to hate on terrible art teachers. We were just saying like, hey, maybe try to avoid these mistakes. But again, with a title like that, that’s not the message that got through.

Amanda:

Okay, so other than like mellowing the rage bait titles, which was a learning experience and growth, what other shifts do you think have happened over the last 10 years, either like art ed or over the course of the podcast?

Tim:

Yeah, that’s a really good question.

Amanda:

If I may, if I may turn the tables and become the interviewer.

Tim:

Good, I appreciate it to be honest. I think the biggest change is just honestly in the way we support each other over the past 10 years, because when we’re talking 2015, 16, 17, things like that, blogs were still huge. That was great because there was a lot of discussion, but a lot of that discussion was how do we teach art in the best ways? Like who’s doing things the right way, who’s doing the wrong way. Like, should you be giving students more choice? Should you focus more on the product? And there’s a lot of debate, which I think was healthy. I think that was helpful because it really let people focus in on the way that they teach best and let people reflect and kind of think deeply about what they want their classroom to look like. And that was awesome, but it was a little contentious at times, I would say.

And so I think over the course of the past few years, we’ve all kind of just accepted like, everybody’s going to do things differently. we may not love how other people are teaching, but we’re all kind of in this together. And I think that that shift to supporting each other, helping each other, being willing to share information and lessons and ideas and procedures and whatever else you want to share.

has been a wonderful shift to help everybody kind of be more supportive of each other.

Amanda:

Yeah, I think that is kind of wild to think about. really was. People really had ideas about the right way to teach art and you’re right. And now the shift has come where it’s like, what’s the right way to teach art for you to your kids? Because I think we’re just realizing that different kids in different places need different things. And maybe also I feel like the pandemic sort of kicked that into gear. It was like, everybody really came together. I mean, not that.

that I wish that happened, but…

Tim:

The silver linings in a VERY dark cloud. Yes, I think there was a lot more understanding of actually, we’re all really working toward the same goal. And however you get there is okay. You know, with extreme exceptions, you know, of course, there’s all ours, but

I think that’s good. I think that’s good to kind of reflect on and talk about as you know, we’ve gone through all this time and I really like the place that we’re in right now. The way that everyone helps each other at this point.

Amanda:

Yeah, for sure. Okay. So other than Sir, Ked Robinson and me, who are some of, you know, I mean, we’re in the same caliber of human. I’m obviously kidding. Who are, who have been some of your favorite guests?

Tim:

Okay. I was trying to see how you’re relating yourself to Sir Ken Robinson. Okay, let me think about that. Yeah, obviously you. loved interviewing Sir Ken. He was great. And when we got done with that interview and like shut microphones off and he’s like, you were great. I think he said, you’re not a bad interviewer at all, which is the most English, like most Englishman compliment you can give and so that was that was a great feeling. I love that you know obviously I loved hosting with Andrew way back in the day we have you know dozens hundreds of episodes together like lots and lots of guests that have been great and we have the people who come on all the time so you know Jen Russell’s on a lot, Candido Crespo’s been on a lot, Kyle Wood is here all the time, Lena Rodriguez just lots of people who come back.

And I was going to say we have our AOE people with you. Janet. I love talking to Janet and working through all of her ideas with her has always been amazing. A couple bigger names that I really enjoyed. Talking to Drew Daywalt, the author of The the Crayons Quit. And I loved him because not only does he write children’s books, he also directs horror movies.

And so that was a very interesting conversation to talk about that. Another one was CJ Hendry, who huge on Instagram for her super realistic colored pencil drawings. And she’s obviously expanded way beyond that now. But if you follow her.

Also CJ Henry. CJ invited me into her studio. We did the interview there. She let me look through her drawings and her works in progress. She was just the coolest. so I really, really enjoyed that. So that was a lot of fun. And I was just going to say, the thinking about working with Janet, she’s done a lot with us and put together a couple of miniseries for us, too, which have been super fun.

We put together the, what do new teachers need to know episodes. And those are three years ago now, but we still have so many people just writing in and being like, these are a lifesaver. love these.

Amanda:

Yeah, I was gonna say I feel like all of the miniseries from the past 10 years hold up like very well So if people don’t know about them, obviously the new teachers one you just mentioned, but then Can you tell us about the other two?

Tim:

Yeah, so we did with Jonathan Juravich. He hosted the Art of SEL, all about social emotional learning. That was eight episodes and he did an incredible job of telling stories, interviewing great guests, and then talking about how you can use social emotional learning in your classroom. So not only giving good examples and making an entertaining podcast, but making it a

worthwhile, like a useful podcast. I really enjoyed that. And then ask the experts. We just did a deep dive into specific media. And so there’s an episode on drawing an episode on ceramics, an episode on printmaking and, just going through everything you need to know in order to teach those mediums. And I really enjoyed doing that and really enjoyed doing those deep dives. So that was.

That was a fun one to put together as well. Like you said, I think they still hold up. yeah, yeah. If anybody wants to go check those out, we’ll link to them. Yeah.

Amanda:

I was going to always do. I think another thing that we’ve done, I mean, that’s newer, which some people might not even know, depending on when you started listening, but we have not always done the mailbag. The mailbag is really only like, it’s a toddler. It’s like 18 months old, I think. Me too. think it’s two.

Tim:

A couple years, maybe. Not important, but the important part is we’re doing it now. This is an idea we’ve had for how long? Yeah. So when I first started, Amanda, you were the editor who, you know, took care of everything for the website. I was a writer who wrote articles and I kept proposing the mailbag idea. Okay, let’s have people write in with questions and I’ll answer them. And you’re like, yes, this is a great idea, but it always got, I don’t know. It never got out of the starting box for various reasons. But then finally, a couple of years ago, we’re like, you know what, let’s just do it in podcast form. And so yeah, you, since you’ve been working with me forever on wanting to bring that idea to life and I enjoy talking to you, it really made sense to have you as the guest.

And those have taken off. It’s been awesome. They are our most popular episodes. And I’m glad we can actually put that idea into action, finally.

Amanda:

Right. Well, and I think it’s so fun because it also represents a shift of our community getting more involved in the podcast. So, I mean, the mailbag, we had some community members help us out with the art history mystery, obviously at the live podcast. So that’s something I know we want to keep pushing forward as the podcast evolves. So can you talk a little bit about maybe like how the audience helps shape the direction of the show in general and then, and then why people should call and leave us a voicemail for the next mailbag?

Tim:

No, that’s a very good question also. And I think…

We’ve always kind of taken suggestions for for episodes like people write in be like you should do an episode on this or like, oh, that’s that’s a great idea and we’ll do that. And sometimes people have wonderful ideas, but I can’t find the right guest and I don’t feel, you know, qualified to talk about things on my own necessarily. But having the the feedback on a regular basis for, you know, those those monthly podcasts is really helpful. And obviously we have stats and we can see that we get listens when we have an episode about creativity and so we will dive into that a little bit more but having that actual feedback is helpful and then we we see those conversations in the community about different topics and a lot of times you know we think to ourselves like that would make for a good podcast in the future or if we just see smaller questions or smaller topics that we want to bring in to the mailbag then, I think that works really, well. And so I think just kind of that interaction and that feedback, not quite real time, but pretty close, is incredibly helpful. It helps us, I guess, frame things in a way that’s really, really helpful. And so I’d love to do more of that moving forward, I guess, and get more feedback. So if anybody wants to email me, timothybogatz at theartofeducation.edu, I would love any comments about the podcast. I would love any questions for the mailbag. And like you said, Amanda, if you would like to leave us a voicemail, we always love voicemails for the mailbag podcasts. The number’s 515-209-2595 and just yeah leave us an email with or a voicemail with whatever questions you have and we’ll we’ll be happy to answer those.

Amanda:

We would literally squeal with joy. I think one…

Tim:

I think you would squeal with joy. I would be like, hey, that’s pretty cool.

Amanda:

Fair. I think one thing that’s really interesting and cool about the podcast is that you said it’s in real time and it’s not, obviously we have to record a little bit ahead of time, compared to some of our other offerings, which take weeks or even months to develop, if we’re talking about products and things like that, this really is the place where we can respond to what’s happening in the world right now. This in the now conference, right? Are sort of of the moment.

And so, if you’re not in the habit of listening week to week, I really think you should like add it to your calendar because we are really talking about things that are happening right now. I know we were talking about how the audience shapes the podcast, but also like art news sometimes shapes the podcast. we did fun episodes on the Lisa Frank documentary and the, Isabella Gardner museum heist documentary.

I’m actually reading a book right now, Tim, that I haven’t even told you about. It’s a new book. It’s like 14 day long at the library about this guy who did hundreds of art the like art heists. He made like a room of the Louvre in his house. It’s really fascinating. anyway.

Tim:
I want to check that out. I was also going to say, as you’re talking about, you know, those documentaries coming out, we’ve done like real time news responses, like when they found a new Basquiat painting, we did an episode the next week about that. When Notre Dame caught on fire, we did kind of a reaction episode to that. so just being able to do those things, I think is worthwhile because, you know, I’m in the same way with the podcasts that I listen to, if they can help me process or help me think about, you know, the

things that I’m interested in or the things that are going on, then I think that’s incredibly helpful for me. And if we can do that for somebody else, then I love that idea.

Amanda:

Yeah.

Tim:

Cool. All right. Well, Amanda, thank you for coming on and chatting with me about 500 episodes. Just a quick and easy celebration of little over 10 years of doing this podcast. So it’s been fun and, you know, we’ll see you next month for the mailbag too.

Okay, well before we go, nobody’s here to tell you this because we just talked about it because our audience you can’t see. So on behalf of all of our thousands of listeners, thanks for being here for the last 10 years. I really think you’ve become like the voice of art education for a lot of art teachers in their classrooms and on their commutes and during their prep time. And so I’ll say thanks on behalf of everybody out there.

Tim:
I very much appreciate that. Thank you.

Amanda:

All right, see you next month, everybody!